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Jetex.org time: Feb 9th 2010, 10:38pm
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Swedish Microafterburners for EDF (Read 4289 times)
BeninTucson
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Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Aug 21st 2006, 9:09pm
 
Hi everyone . . .  
 
I just saw someone on JXP post a link to this one and I  
had to take a look . . .  
 
http://www.microafterburners.com/
 
It's a Swedish company that makes an afterburner  
unit for Electric Ducted Fan (EDF) motors! Has anyone  
seen anything like this before?  
 
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Ben in Tucson
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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd 2006, 10:43am by BeninTucson »  

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SteveB
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Re: Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Reply #1 - Aug 21st 2006, 10:28pm
 
This 'afterburner' has been subject of quite a bit of discussion over on RC Groups... The consensus is that it's a very 'cool' visual effect but there is little, if any, performance benefit. Even the manufacturers claimed figures show a maximum thrust boost of only 10% (could be even less depending on fan choice). This thrust increase is largely offset by the weight added by the afterburner components. The 'burn' duration is not stated on the site but I'm estimating at about 6 seconds. So for the other 95% of the flight there is a slight thrust loss due to the restriction caused by the burner... plus the extra weight.
 
It does have a certain WOW! factor though.
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BeninTucson
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Re: Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Reply #2 - Aug 21st 2006, 10:46pm
 
Hi Steve . . .  
 
Yes, that seems to be the consensus from what I have  
read tonight on the web.  
 
Also . . . I'm finding that this web site and relate images  
are built on some sort "electronic quicksand". Half the  
time that I click the above link it simply hangs in space  
and doesn't open. Those photos are also problematic.  
 
After a bit of fighting, I managed to download them from  
the Microafterburners site, reformated them in Photoshop,  
and uploaded them onto Jetex.org. They are currently linked  
from there and they should open up cleanly now.  
 
Would you buy a flying bunson burner from a company  
with a web site that you can only reach on ocassion?  
 
Ben in Tucson  
 
 
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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd 2006, 10:44am by BeninTucson »  

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Rocky_Roger
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Re: Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Reply #3 - Aug 22nd 2006, 5:31am
 
Very interesting .... but stupid.  This arrangement looks very similar to the kinds of things which were tried in the late forties and early fifties when modellers with engineering experience were trying to make model turbojets.  
A blow torch arrangement with an electric fan was an early experiment .  These and other fanciful contraptions, some lethal, are discussed in the (Jet) X Files, Sept 2004.
 
I don't think anyone, except the legendary Benson-Ball claimed any gave a decent thrust, if any.  Then there was the MEW 601 ... ???
 
The Swedish version looks useful if you wanted to make creme brule. Grin
 
There are some interesting and commercially available miniature rockets about using N2O as oxidiser which give a flame and some nice smoke.
 
What goes around comes around ...
 
RR
 
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Onwards and Upwards!

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SteveB
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Re: Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Reply #4 - Aug 22nd 2006, 8:29am
 
In principal this thing is closer to a ‘Thermojet’ than an afterburner. The Thermojet is a jet engine consisting of a compressor driven by an external power source (usually a piston engine in full size Thermojets). Compressed air is then mixed with fuel and burned in a combustion chamber producing reactive thrust. The big problem with this EDF driven unit is that ducted fans produce virtually no compression so combustion will be extremely inefficient and produce very little thrust increase.
 
The Thermojet was first used in the Coander 1910 and later in the Campini Caproni CC.2 but was eventually given up with the advent of the Turbojet.
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BeninTucson
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Re: Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Reply #5 - Aug 22nd 2006, 10:41am
 
Hi guys . . .  
 
I agree. But you have to admit that it looks like fun.  
 
The web site itself was the most troubling aspect  
of the whole thing for me. On two different computers  
(running two different operating systems) and with three  
different web browsers, I had only fleeting success  
being able to consistently connect to their site. It was  
only with a certain amount of trepidation and tenacity  
that I was able to get the above photos to properly download  
onto my computer. I've never had so much trouble with  
a web site in all my life.  
 
Back to the device . . .  
 
The comparison to the MEW 601 is a good one.  
Although that late 1940's gadget was famous for  
producing absolutely no thrust at all, this  
one is at least alleged (by the manufacturere, no  
less) to add just enough thrust to a ducted fan to  
compensate for it's own weight . . . much like an  
augmenter tube installation for a Jetex, I suppose.  
 
On the various R/C discussion groups, where this  
product has already made the rounds, the sceptics  
take no liberties in taking it to task. Many wonder  
about the fire danger (issues that us genuine rocket  
plane flyers have to think about constantly but most  
ARF foam 'n electric prop "park flyer" enthusiasts  
never typically need to contemplate). In deference  
to the Microafterburner (which Steve correctly  
classifies as a thermojet), I guess one could say that  
it adds a little danger and excitement to that most  
boring and uninspiring of "jet model" powerplants,  
the electric ducted fan.  
 
Nitrose oxide (N2O) hybrid rocket motors . . . that's an  
interesting subject in it's own right. These DO actually  
work (Burt Rutan's Space Ship One used a big version  
for a power plant) and they enjoy a following in the  
"high power" model rocketry community. There are even  
"microhybrids" that aren't much larger than a 24mm  
diameter "D" impulse Estes. They uses disposible "soda  
jet" cartridges (looking just like their little CO2 counterparts).  
Producing less thrust and for a longer duration than their  
solid fuel counterparts (hmmm . . . ), they require a bit of  
careful setting up on the launch pad to make them work  
reliably.  
 
The one main thing that prevents microhybrids from being  
explored in rocket plane circles (and this is something that  
I've certainly given thought to) is that they rely on gravity to  
have the gas flow into the combustion chamber, so it is  
limited to vertical launching applications only.  
 
Ben in Tucson  
 
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stephen
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Re: Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Reply #6 - Jul 26th 2007, 12:04am
 
Are you sure that NO2 rockets are not suitable for aircraft.  
With the acceleration and presures involved I do not feel that this would be a problem.
I have seen in the hybrid rocket forums mention of the difference in performance when on test stands in horizontal and vertical positions. I thinkthe results were negligable.
I would build the plane and give it a go. You might be pleasantly surprised.
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SteveB
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Re: Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Reply #7 - Jul 26th 2007, 12:27am
 
Yes, N02 hybrid motors 'should' in theory be good for out use... One of the members of this forum, Dave Fawcett, is currently working on such a motor: http://www.jetex.org/scripts/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=mjpmotors;action=display;num=11 69939253;start=7#7. It does however require a great deal of expertise to come up with a reliable, practical and light weight long burn duration hybrid motor.
I agree with you that orientation of the motor is not a big issue. The N02 is gas stored at very high pressure so gravity plays virtually no part in the fuel feed process.
 
Steve
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BeninTucson
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Re: Swedish Microafterburners for EDF
Reply #8 - Jul 26th 2007, 10:42pm
 
Wow . . .  
 
I had totally forgotten about this one! I wonder what  
has happened with the Swedish Microafterburner?  
Gone the way of the MEW 601?  
 
Regarding microhybrids and nitrous gravity  
flow . . . I joined the Microhybrids YahooGroup  
back in late 2003 and did a fair amount of inquiring  
there as to the prospects of adapting the technology  
to model airplane use (longer burn, horizontal  
operation, lighter weight, throttle control, etc)  
and the consensus then from the folks that were  
actually working with (and, in some cases,  
manufacturing) these motors was that it would  
be very hard to do. Chief among their  
observations was that the nitrous oxide, while  
under pressure, was largely dependent on gravity  
flow to get it into the chamber. Vertical operation  
with the existing technology (which hasn't changed  
much since then) was essential. My illuminating  
two-way discussions with them  occurred in  
late 2003 and early 2004 and should be available  
for all to see who join their group and check the site's  
archives . . .  
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microhybrids/
 
I admire anyone (including our own Dave Fawcett)  
who is willing to spend time to make it work but I  
tend to think that the necessary addition of micro  
pumps will add immeasurably to the cost,  
complexity and weight. Nice to think outside the box  
at times but I tend to believe that the immediate  
future for us will be with simple solid fuel rockets.  
 
Conventional (real world) microhybrids are neat  
- but rather tricky to get working properly -  
model rocketry devices. The very small segment  
of the much larger model rocketry population  
that chooses to pursue it are interesting and  
dedicated folks . . . much like the rocket airplane  
minority that inhabits the free flight model  
airplane world.  
 
Ben in Tucson  
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Ben in Tucson is, more formally, Ben Nead of Tucson, Arizona, USA . . .
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